The storm is coming.

Yes, I saw Jim Carrey’s post on HuffPo.

Yes, a breakdown is coming.

However I have shelf exams on friday, so it’s going to wait til the weekend.

(for those that haven’t seen the article, it’s here)

Feel free to discuss amongst yourselves – it may be more fruitful than my butting in with a post anyway.

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7 Comments on “The storm is coming.”

  1. siegfried Says:

    This will have much sarcasms in it yes?

    i am hoping you debunk w/ much evidence.


  2. You don’t have to write about. Why don’t you instead discuss the the baseball season?

    I read it, or at least tried to read it. First, how much you want to bet Jim Carey didn’t write it? And second, he knows more than the special vaccine court?

    Oh well, I’ll await your words. Thursday and Friday should be interesting in all of the medical blogs.

  3. HoleyMind Says:

    There’s a lot I want to write about this, but I’ll limit myself. I don’t know what qualifies as “health or medical information” (as stated in the guidelines for here) and I’m really not up to hunting down sources right now.

    quotes from the article:

    The truth is that no one without a vested interest in the profitability of vaccines has studied all 36 of them in depth.

    I have no idea whether this is true. Probably true for a given definition of who counts as having such “vested interests”. By the same token, I’d say that there have never been studies done that proved a vaccine (or the vaccines) on the vaccine schedule dangerous by anyone who did not have vested interests in this being the case. I genuinely hope mine is closer to valid, but this sort of claim is generally dishonest, isn’t it?

    There are more than 100 vaccines in development, and no tests for cumulative effect or vaccine interaction of all 36 vaccines in the current schedule have ever been done. If I’m mistaken, I challenge those who are making such grand pronouncements about vaccine safety to produce those studies.

    That there may be “100 vaccines in development” has no bearing on what you’re talking about, that is, vaccines currently FDA-approved. Still, a lot of things “in development” never come to fruition. Anybody know the statistics?

    Cumulative effects and interactions. Hm. Well, I guess that’s plausible for the ones that are given together, but afaik, these combo ones do have to be tested. As in, have been. Confirm or refute, anyone?
    Anyway, afaik, the only time vaccines would have cumulative effects is when it would take multiple doses to get the immune response sought, like with the Hep B vaccine (three doses, if I remember correctly), or if a good enough response must be maintained by booster shots or re-vaccination (like tetanus).
    Interactions… Like I said, maybe that was a concern with combination shots. Vaccines don’t take horribly long to, well, finish what they’re doing. To say they’d interact with each other strikes me as silly as claiming that the flu you got last month was as bad as it was because of the cold you got three months before that. It doesn’t follow. Maybe this isn’t being studied (but perhaps in particular cases) because there is no reason to believe it could possibly be true.

    If anyone did show you the studies, it’s evident from the previous quote that you’d dismiss them as having “a vested interest in the profitability of vaccines”. By doing this, you have limited your information.

    If we are to believe that the ruling of the ‘vaccine court’ in these cases mean that all vaccines are safe, then we must also consider the rulings of that same court in the Hannah Polling and Bailey Banks cases, which ruled vaccines were the cause of autism and therefore assume that all vaccines are unsafe. Clearly both are irresponsible assumptions, and neither option is prudent.

    I don’t remember Bailey Banks, but I remember Hannah Polling and that was mitochondrial disorder (which autism is not). Not all autistic-like symptoms are autism. I don’t know why this seems to be such a hard thing to understand. I have several to many autistic-like symptoms, but I’m not autistic. I have an odd presentation of MS.

    “The cause” of autism? Really? Everything I’ve seen on causes of autism have been multi-faceted. So far as we know, there isn’t any one thing that causes it. Same for what I have. So? The rulings are only for the particular cases. You can’t honestly say “the cause”.

    Only one more, because I can’t keep doing this. (Please bear with me on the tiny quotes.):

    […]may be causing autism and other disorders (Aspergers, ADD, ADHD)[…]

    <

    With many states like Minnesota now reporting the number at 1 in 80 children affected with autism[…]

    Ok, so first you’re separating autism from a related disorder, Aspergers. Presumably the same with PDD-NOS. But you’d already said that Poling and Banks proved the cause of autism.. though as far as I can see neither of them had autism proper. If that’s so, you’re not comparing apples to apples, so who knows what conditions your 1 in 80 includes? Where did that statistic come from, anyway?

    Oh, and about the whole thing. Yes, there are counter-indications for every vaccine. Biggest one I can think of is allergy to a component. Also there’s immune reaction that can counter-indicate certain vaccines. (For example, because I have an auto-immune disease, I’m not supposed to get live-virus vaccines.) It’s not like counter-indications aren’t well-known.

    Agenda. The CDC’s agenda, the AAP’s agenda, the vaccine-makers’ agenda… what about Carrey’s agenda here? what about Generation Rescue’s agenda? If you’re going to talk about “agenda”, remember it goes both ways. You can’t claim the high ground so far as agenda goes.

    The whole thing, vaccines and autism idea.. and “toxins” and diet and such.. As far as I can tell, it’s all some desperate search to find out what made (or is making) things the way they are and how it might be made better or prevented. That endeavor is well and good, but it shouldn’t be a desperate one, shouldn’t be on the basis of anecdote and probably shouldn’t be taken on by someone very close to the problem. As I said, I have MS. It, too, is a condition with no known cause. There is a genetic factor (as in autism) and there’s serious possibility that a vitamin deficiency in fetal development could be a factor.. but neither of those guarantee the disease. There must be more than one contributing element and not all of the contributing elements have been found. (That, at least, is the same as in autism.) If I tried to figure out what caused me to have this, I’d go crazy, I think.. so many possibilities.. and searching for other treatments to try would leave me the same. I think these questions are better left to the experts, the researchers interested in finding out. It’s not my place. I’d go nuts over the number of possibilities (considering the cause is unknown, the options could be innumerable) or find one and obsess over it (which would mean ignoring other things). Isn’t the day to day enough? Things are as they are, go with it. I really do think that’s the best way to spend one’s energy. I honestly don’t know why so many people apparently don’t think so.

    (This is me limiting myself? I’m not very good at it, apparently.)

    • Scott Says:

      “The whole thing, vaccines and autism idea.. and “toxins” and diet and such.. As far as I can tell, it’s all some desperate search to find out what made (or is making) things the way they are and how it might be made better or prevented.”

      If only it were so benign. Unfortunately, it actually originates from what can only be characterized as scientific fraud motivated by personal financial gain. Or to be more colloquial, Wakefield made it up in order to make money.

      A lot of what makes it persistent is as you describe, but not the origin.


    • @Holeymind

      I need to dig up some information, and I’m off to a meeting right now, but whether it’s one vaccination or 100, I’m not sure there is a cumulative deleterious effect. I have no clue how many antigens elicit an immune response in a year or even a week, but it probably numbers in the thousands, if not millions. Most of them are innocuous. Some of them cause diseases.

      I think the number of vaccines issue is not relevant.

  4. John H. Says:

    Just on first take, Jim Carrey’s COI is just as serious (and consequently just as invalidating) as any scientist being funded by a large corporate interest. Either it’s crucially important (as he claims on the part of scientists), or it’s not.

    I know I’ve made a false dichotomy. But his purpose is to muddy the waters, and MANY regular people will see the issue this way–as black-and-white. We know the influence of “other interests” is just one factor to be taken into account.

    My point is that Jim Carrey’s little head is doing an awful lot of his thinking when it comes to the issue. If that’s not a skewed perspective, then I don’t know what is. Likewise for SWSNBN (She who shall not be named). As HoleyMind said: “The whole thing, vaccines and autism idea … probably shouldn’t be taken on by someone very close to the problem.” I agree. Emotions only hinder the search for truth.


  5. I wonder if there comes a point that we should ignore these people like Jim Carey. Well, I guess if we don’t, then their point of view becomes valid.

    There is so much to say about his comments, that I can only pick on a couple. I was going to mention the logical fallacy of his argument about lung cancer, but Orac does a much better job.

    I remain exhausted by the ad hominem attacks that someone how the CDC, FDA, Big Pharma, physicians, and aliens are in a huge conspiracy to hide data to create huge profits. That’s a conspiracy of such a huge group of individuals, including scientists across the globe, I would suspect that a leak would have happened by now. Of course, attacking the integrity of your “opponents” is as old as human history.


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